Comments on: De Facto Guardian: A Response to the Strongest Version of the Bodily Rights Argument for Abortion http://prolifepodcast.net/2013/04/de-facto-guardian/ Pro-Life Talk. Real World Answers. Sun, 27 Jul 2014 08:24:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.9.2 By: tigalily http://prolifepodcast.net/2013/04/de-facto-guardian/#comment-25694 Sun, 20 Jul 2014 06:26:00 +0000 http://prolifepodcast.net/?p=989#comment-25694 How is this argument a better one than the violinist? In no part in your argument is the woman giving nutrients (i.e. hooked up INSIDE) via her own body. The 1 week old newborn is NOT physically hooked up (like the violinist was). So your analogy is moot. Taking care of the infant for 6 weeks to 2 years is NOT the same as carrying a fetus to term and giving birth. Actually…this analogy really is disgusting at how you see pregnancy and birth.

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By: Two bad pro-life responses to bodily rights arguments - Josh Brahm http://prolifepodcast.net/2013/04/de-facto-guardian/#comment-18806 Fri, 18 Apr 2014 13:48:28 +0000 http://prolifepodcast.net/?p=989#comment-18806 […] spoken on bodily rights arguments a lot, especially after helping write the De Facto Guardian paper. During Q&A, someone will often ask about a potential pro-life response that I didn’t include […]

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By: Week 8: Understanding and responding to bodily rights arguments : Right to Life of Central California http://prolifepodcast.net/2013/04/de-facto-guardian/#comment-18653 Mon, 14 Apr 2014 22:18:46 +0000 http://prolifepodcast.net/?p=989#comment-18653 […] Brahm just posted a recording of his presentation of the “de facto guardian” argument at the Students for Life of America Regional Leadership Summit at UCLA. This is an updated […]

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By: UPDATED: Understanding and responding to bodily rights arguments - Josh Brahm http://prolifepodcast.net/2013/04/de-facto-guardian/#comment-18049 Wed, 26 Mar 2014 16:21:58 +0000 http://prolifepodcast.net/?p=989#comment-18049 […] just posted a recording of my presentation of the “de facto guardian” argument at the Students for Life of America Regional Leadership Summit at UCLA. This is an updated […]

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By: Vita http://prolifepodcast.net/2013/04/de-facto-guardian/#comment-9989 Thu, 03 Oct 2013 18:27:00 +0000 http://prolifepodcast.net/?p=989#comment-9989 If that is the case you can easily bring up another Supreme Court case that changed the legal definition of a person the Dred Scott Case. They will not agree unless they are extremely racist.
The other question that you could ask is how they define personhood, because it is obvious that a living human being is present at this point.

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By: Autumn in the Sovereign Zone: Why "It's My Body, I Can Do What I Want" Won't Do -- Evangelical OutpostEvangelical Outpost http://prolifepodcast.net/2013/04/de-facto-guardian/#comment-9982 Thu, 03 Oct 2013 14:01:12 +0000 http://prolifepodcast.net/?p=989#comment-9982 […] the use of her body.  I will not address that argument here; if you are interested, I recommend “De Facto Guardian and Abortion: A Response to the Strongest Violinist,” Steve Wagner’s summary of the discussion […]

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By: Guest http://prolifepodcast.net/2013/04/de-facto-guardian/#comment-8289 Sun, 04 Aug 2013 20:15:00 +0000 http://prolifepodcast.net/?p=989#comment-8289 I disagree with your implication that anyone who supports legalized abortion in the case of rape will support Mary’s legal right to refuse in the no-formula cases. Quite the contrary, many people rethink their views on abortion when being presented with the analogy. It provides a fresh look at the principles involved outside the context of pregnancy and abortion, but in a way that’s closely related (transposing the relevant similarities). Thomson’s violinist story also attempts to do this (and as such, has also caused people to rethink their views on the permissibility of abortion – particularly in the case of rape). It would be consistent to support the right to refuse in both cases with the blizzard story (or oppose it in both cases with the violinist story), but this conclusion seems quite implausible. So the challenge is to determine which analogy is more similar to pregnancy, and why. This would in turn shed light on the controversial issue.

It is quite difficult to appeal to legal precedent here (as we don’t have any actual court cases to turn to). Abortion is legal in the U.S. on the grounds that a fetus is not a legal person with Fourteenth Amendment protection (change that, and Roe v. Wade automatically collapses in Justice Blackmun’s own words), not because of bodily autonomy. And McFall v. Shimp is irrelevant because it didn’t involve a parent or guardian refusing to provide food or shelter to their child. In fact, Shimp didn’t owe *anything* to McFall (the court would have ruled the same way if he had refused to pay his cousin’s medical bills). We would need a case where a certain adult is the only person in the vicinity with the ability to help a child through food or shelter. The most similar story we can find is in a Pixar movie, which is not legally binding. However, if we imagine a hypothetical world where cantankerous old men frequently tie helium balloons to their houses only to find needy boy scouts on their porches or where women wake up trapped in strange cabins full of infant formula with crying babies in the next room, it’s hard to seriously hold that we wouldn’t mandate the adult to provide support. The no-formula cases (and pregnancy) are more intimate and require more meaningful sacrifices, but they’re not so intimate that they would distinguish a serious crime from perfectly legal behaviour.

It would be even more apparent if the only options were breastfeeding and directly assaulting the child with a weapon.

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By: Download my new bodily rights speech - Josh Brahm http://prolifepodcast.net/2013/04/de-facto-guardian/#comment-8120 Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:56:57 +0000 http://prolifepodcast.net/?p=989#comment-8120 [...] just posted a recording of my presentation of the “de facto guardian” argument at the Students for Life of America Regional Leadership Summit at the University of Southern [...]

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By: Guest http://prolifepodcast.net/2013/04/de-facto-guardian/#comment-7387 Fri, 12 Jul 2013 04:52:00 +0000 http://prolifepodcast.net/?p=989#comment-7387 I think you might benefit from reading the rest of the paper. It explores scenarios that involve levels of sacrifice more on par with pregnancy and childbirth.

The fact that rapists who conceive children sometimes get custody/visitation rights seems like an unfortunate legal technicality more than anything else. It doesn’t say much about whether or not laws permitting abortion are just.

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By: Deb http://prolifepodcast.net/2013/04/de-facto-guardian/#comment-7381 Thu, 11 Jul 2013 23:06:00 +0000 http://prolifepodcast.net/?p=989#comment-7381 I like the concept of de facto guardian, but this scenario sets up a false dilemma by oversimplification. There really isn’t anything sacrificial about a woman giving a baby formula for six weeks. However, if a woman is raped and forced to carry and have the baby, this is nine months of pregnancy AND giving birth. No comparison. Add to this other legal complexities such as: does the father get custody/visitation rights? In some states, yes, he may.

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